In this episode, we explore the question of whether or not to pay speakers at conferences and events, a topic that often arises for organizers. We discuss the underlying problems that feed into this question, such as lack of knowledge about event budgets, resource management issues, and the potential for exploitation. We emphasize that catering and AV services are typically more expensive than speaker fees, so saving on speaker compensation won't necessarily fix budget problems.

We dive into the issue of exploitation and exposure capitalism, where speakers are not paid for their contributions to events but instead receive exposure to audiences. This cycle perpetuates a system that marginalizes and takes advantage of individuals, particularly those who are already marginalized. We discuss breaking this cycle by offering proper compensation packages, understanding budgets, and crafting a speaker selection process that is aware of the event's goals and audience. By valuing speakers and their contributions, events can create a more inclusive and respectful atmosphere.

We emphasize the importance of compensating speakers for their contributions to conferences, as both an audience and quality content are necessary for a successful event. While we share plenty of ideas and opinions on speaker honorariums, our main message is to pay your speakers to ensure a valuable experience for all attendees. For additional resources, visit geteventslab.com to obtain a free tool that can help with budgeting and determining payment for speakers at your events.

Timestamps and key takeaways

0:03:04 - Cost of Speakers

0:10:17 - Rejecting Exploitative Capitalism

0:16:40 - Framing Compensation for Community Projects

Cost of Speakers

And for me, the big one that comes up first is that when you're asking, do I have to pay speakers? or especially, Can I get them for free or will saving on speakers fix my budget? It's that they actually have no idea what the event budget is. Or what the strategy around speaker compensation should be. They just don't know. 

And in this case, ignorance is not bliss. It rarely is. But if you really don't know what kind of budget you're working with for your event, then this is naturally one of the questions you're gonna ask because oftentimes community organizers aren't getting compensated through their own event production. And so the natural next step is why should anybody else?

Rejecting Exploitative Capitalism

I think that comes back to this kind of unhealthy ego thing with this notion that, I'm creating the stage that is literally a platform for this person to share their message. And so therefore, they should be willing to do it for access to this platform without being compensated. And I think that that's a really, really dicey mindset to get into. 

Before I started kick ass conferences I worked in the events world for a number of years and I worked on projects where, outside of travel expenses, the speakers were speaking to thousands of people and not getting a dime for it. And that rubbed me the wrong way. I did not like the notion that, ‘oh, this is a privilege to be able to speak on this stage’. I hate that so much. And I think that's garbage. I hate that so much. I hate it.

And I hate anybody that thinks that way because that is such an arrogant thing to do,  it's capitalist, imperialist, and at the end of the day, that always is hurting people who are already marginalized and on the outside. Because it always ends up being a rich influential white person doing this to people of color, women, queer people, disabled people who they're already getting screwed by the system. but now they're getting screwed for the sake of being able to get access to this community. and the truth is, yeah, they probably wouldn't have access If it weren't for that. But that's, so exploitative and so gross, and I hate it. 

Framing Compensation for Community Projects

Another example would be a recent project we had where it was very much a community oriented event. It was all online. It was a first time thing. We had a very limited budget. But out of that, we were able to carve a little bit of honorarium for each person who contributed to the panel discussions and to the content. And we were able to approach that and say, look, this is what we can offer. We know it's not much, but we value your contributions. And, if there's any other way that we can support you let us know. And so just framing it from that standpoint knowing that, yes, we were able to pay the speaker something. It wasn't, by any means, a market rate for a talk or anything like that. But having that context around what your goals are and what you're creating will help you craft a compensation package that will both fit within your budget and not come off as offensive or completely disingenuous to the people you're inviting to contribute to it.

Transcript

0:00:14

How do you as a leader of a growing community truly make a conference or event that has impact? A gathering with purpose, and an attendee experience that knocks their socks off. An event that leaves your audience in awe and wondering where you've been her whole life. Make it kick ass is the podcast that explores these questions by uncovering the strategies, tactics, and tools that we use every day to bring our clients conferences to life. I'm Isaac Watson, executive producer of kick ass conferences, and we're here to help you make it, kick gas. Hey, everyone. 

Welcome back to another episode of Make It Kick ass. I am the executive producer of kick ass conferences, Isaac Watson. And with me in our remote studio because that's how we roll things and that's how we love it. His operations manager, Nessa Jimenez, hello, Nessa. 

Hi, Isaac. Hi, everybody.

Alright.

0:01:13

We are spending this season talking about some of those hot questions that we get asked all the time from people who find out that we produce conferences for a living. And today, we are talking about one question that comes up a lot. That question is, do I have to pay speakers? Could this be like the number one? I'm trying to think of, like, of the ones we're talking about. Could this possibly be the number one question? 

I would say of all time, I would say that this question has come up with new clients and prospective clients ninety-nine point nine nine nine percent of the time. So I think I think that this probably is. Yeah. The biggest question that we get asked. So as you might guess, we have some thoughts. On the subject -- Yeah. -- because this is what we do. Yeah. So let's dive into those.

0:02:10

So first, what do people really mean when they're asking this question? They're saying, do I have to pay speakers? Like, oh, do I have to? Yeah. Do I have What do they really mean, Nessa? 

Yeah. What they're basically asking is for permission for, like, can I get speakers for free? Do I have to pay people? Right? Like, can I get away with it? Having people speak and not paying them anything. Or can I use having a low speaker fee or no speaker fee to balance my budget because in their mind, they're thinking that the speakers are what's gonna mess up their whole budget? Mhmm. Right?

0:02:47

And if so and so, like, I know this other conference person that doesn't pay anybody anything, if they don't have to pay their speakers, then why should I have to? Why should people expect to pay at my conference? And, yeah, I wanna do what they did because it seems like they're doing fine. And finally, there's people who are just straight up, like, I don't know how much to pay speakers. How much do I pay? Is there a magic number that is the speaker's payment number? And if so, please tell me what it is. 

0:03:18

I think that's a lot of different ways to come up with the same question. Right? There's, like, several different mindsets coming out of that. And so I think that's a good opportunity to dig into the underlying problems that feed into these questions.

0:03:34

And for me, the big one that comes up first is that when you're asking, do I have to pay speakers or especially Can I get them for free or will saving on speakers fix my budget? It's that they actually have no idea what the event budget is. Or what the strategy around speaker compensation should be. They just don't know. Yeah. And in this case, you know, ignorance is not bliss. It rarely is. But if you really don't know what kind of budget you're working with for your event, then this is naturally one of the questions you're gonna ask because oftentimes community organizers aren't getting compensated through their own event production. Mhmm. And so the natural next step is why should anybody else? Right.

0:04:25

But it also kind of makes sense from a perspective of, like, if you've never done this before, if you've never been on the organizing side of a conference, and you've only attended conferences. I mean, speakers play a big part in the presentation of a conference. Right? Like a speaker is the heart and soul of many events. So -- Mhmm. -- you see that from the outside. 

And so the assumption tends to be like, oh my god. The speaker part is gonna be the most expensive part of this budget. I already need to start worrying about that. How am I gonna deal with that? And again, that's just not true. That is from a lack of experience because honestly, the reality is in most budgets like the speakers are that's the easy part. Right? Right. Like, if  you've got budget problems, saving on speaker compensation is not going to fix them. Correct. And paying speakers fairly even is not gonna hurt the wallet because there's so many other things that are way more expensive than that, that you should not be worrying about speakers. Yeah. Let me introduce you to a catering menu or an AV service. Right? Like, those are the big ticket items. Catering alone, it's just gonna make the speaker fees look like nothing. Exactly.

0:05:44

I think another one of the underlying problems when people are approaching speaker compensation like this, is kind of a resource management issue. And by that, I mean that especially as a first time organizer it it's easy to not really understand kind of what your existing network reaches or you may feel like, oh, you know, I want so and so, but I can't afford them or I or I feel like I'm influential in a space, and so anybody I asked to speak at this would totally be willing to do it for free. I think that comes down to a little bit of ego too, which can be unhealthy. And so as we think about, like, what resources someone has available to them, what their network is. 

That can start to help us understand, you know, who actually should we be targeting with this and how, you know, how is that influencing this underlying question of, you know, what do I wanna spend to get these, you know, the right people in the room for this? Or in terms of research management, you're not research, resource management. Your idea of who a speaker is or who qualifies as a speaker, that's also something that is not explored. Mhmm. Because they're just thinking about a website, right, of, like, this is a database of speakers, and everybody here charges ten thousand dollars. Right. Like, that's a stereotypical image of what a speaker is. So 

-- Mhmm.

0:07:23

-- going into resource management, thinking about when we speak, are we talking about the same thing? Does that word mean the same thing to you as it does to us? Right. 

So the last kind of, like, underlying problem that I wanna dig into. And I would say that this is maybe not the first thing that came up for us but it might be the most important thing is around exploitation. Mhmm. It's a little tough, but anybody, especially who works in the creative fields, design, art, whatnot, is very familiar with a classic meme. Honestly, I don't know what the original source of it was. I think it was a cartoon.

0:08:16

Talking about working for exposure 

-- Mhmm. 

-- and this notion of exposure to capitalism. Now, I know you have a lot of opinions about this. I am. And I think you're probably a little more articulate about this than I am as I stumble over my words. So I'm gonna hand it over to you to go a little deeper? Yeah.

0:08:35

So basically, exploitation via this exposure to capitalism. Right? This idea that I don't have to pay you because I am giving you access to this audience that I have and that should be enough and then eventually one day someone down the road will pay you. But what we know is that that never that's a cycle that kinda never ends. There's you're constantly being asked to work for free and for bigger and bigger audiences. And then, yeah, it's just exploitation and it sucks and one of our core values at kick ass conferences is that we don't play that game. You know, everybody gets paid for working and and paid how they need to get paid, not in exposure, not in thank use. You know what I mean? Mhmm.

0:09:24

And that is a big problem, not just in conferences, I mean, in everything, in design, in art, in all the things. Right? And it's really egregious in the speaker space though. There are so many incredible speakers that have spoken at huge events and they did not get paid a dime. And events that are turning million dollar profits, and they see none of that, and yet their work, their image, their reputation is being used to sell this event. And we break that cycle. Like, we don't. Work with anyone who is unwilling to pay their speakers. Right? Yeah. So it's a big problem to break that habit because it is something that has been done so much and something that is so common, that doesn't mean it's right. Or that is appropriate.

0:10:17

I think that comes back to this kind of unhealthy ego thing with this notion that, I'm creating the stage that is literally a platform for this person to share their message. And so therefore, they should be willing to do it for access to this platform without being compensated. And I think that that's a really, really dicey mindset to get into. 

Before I started kick ass conferences I worked in the events world for a number of years and I worked on projects where, outside of travel expenses, the speakers were speaking to thousands of people and not getting a dime for it. And that rubbed me the wrong way. I did not like the notion that, ‘oh, this is a privilege to be able to speak on this stage’. I hate that so much. And I think that's garbage. I hate that so much. I hate it.

0:11:14

And I hate anybody that thinks that way because that is such an arrogant thing to do,  it's capitalist, imperialist, and at the end of the day, that always is hurting people who are already marginalized and on the outside. Because it always ends up being a rich influential white person doing this to people of color, women, queer people, disabled people who they're already getting screwed by the system. but now they're getting screwed for the sake of being able to get access to this community. and the truth is, yeah, they probably wouldn't have access If it weren't for that. But that's, so exploitative and so gross, and I hate it. 

0:12:10

Well, let's talk about some solutions. Ideas. And some of the ways that we can combat those mindsets with actual practical ways of working around this. So I think the first thing, the first big thing for me, especially when we're talking about this exposure to capitalism, is starting by understanding what you actually can offer to people beyond this exposure platform privilege, whatever bullshit. I think that if you start by saying, okay, this is the event that I am creating, this is the audience that I am creating it for, and this is what I want to offer to that audience. And so therefore, this is what I can offer to speakers to be able to deliver that. That's the better mindset to start with. Right. And connected to that is the budget. Don't talk to me about speaker payments if you don't even know what your budget is. Right? Like -- Definitely.

0:13:07

-- we start from there. You do the numbers, you figure out what you need. And from there, we can have a real conversation about what we can offer speakers, and that could be on top of our area. I don't know. Maybe you own a business and you could get a product from your business. Right? Or something like that. Like, there's plenty that someone can do that can offer on top of an honorarium. And we could step back a little bit. We're not saying to offer more than you have. What we're saying is that you need to offer something. Like, Mhmm. Zero dollars is not a honorarium. 

Yeah. Yeah. Like, even if we're talking about two hundred dollars, three hundred dollars. You start from there, like, this is what the black and white budget says, but what else can I offer them? Like I said before, can I get their free product? Can we pay for their travel and their lodging? Pay for their meals. Can we have a sponsor that can help us provide additional, you know, money or stuff? Yeah.

0:14:24

We like to think about a compensation package. Right? Beyond just what cash you can give to a speaker in return as a fee for service -- Mhmm. -- for them delivering a talk or contributing to a panel, We think about what the entire package of how we're able to compensate that speaker looks like for each client. And that's within the client the context of each client's budget. And scope and the number of people they're bringing to play and all this kind of stuff. A couple examples: A few years ago, we were working with a client for an event that was happening in Europe.

0:15:01

And we had invited a speaker. We're at the compensation package. We said this is our flat honorarium that we're offering everybody. We're gonna cover your travel expenses up to x amount. We're gonna do this. Etcetera. We invited one particular speaker who came back to us and said, this sounds great. Would you also consider helping connect me with potential business opportunities when I get there and reach out to a couple universities or areas that might be willing to contribute more to have me lecture while I'm there and things like that. And we just went, oh, that's actually brilliant. That's low rent for us.

0:15:43

Like, we can make some efforts, you know, send some intro emails, shop it around a little bit to help amplify the speakers' profile and get them more of a reason to come because we couldn't afford to pay their normal fee. Right? That's something that we can do to compensate them or to help make that trip worth a while that is a little more contextual to that speaker's needs. Yeah. And it wasn't just exposure. It was literally connecting them, like, highly targeted leads. Like, these are the type of people you wanna talk to and wanna be in front of. We've connected you with them. And then after that, I think that speaker had, like, two or three, like, on-site visits during that same conference, and they had a great time, like connecting with these people when it went. At the end of the day, they were very satisfied with it because it helped them reach goals outside of, you know. Yeah.

0:16:40

Another example would be a recent project we had where it was very much a community oriented event. It was all online. It was a first time thing. We had a very limited budget. But out of that, we were able to carve a little bit of honorarium for each person who contributed to the panel discussions and to the content. And we were able to approach that and say, look, this is what we can offer. We know it's not much, but we value your contributions. And, if there's any other way that we can support you let us know. And so just framing it from that standpoint knowing that, yes, we were able to pay the speaker something. It wasn't, by any means, a market rate for a talk or anything like that. But having that context around what your goals are and what you're creating will help you craft a compensation package that will both fit within your budget and not come off as offensive or completely disingenuous to the people you're inviting to contribute to it.

0:17:45

Exactly. So I think we've talked plenty. I think we shared our opinions or our hot spicy takes, so I don't even freaking out at home. Well, I will just add one thing before I I recap 

-- Mhmm. 

-- that ultimately this speaker compensation comes down to speaker selection. And the process you use for that. And so related to all of this is using a selection process that is appropriate and conceptually aware for your audience, your content goals and your budget goals. And if you're thinking about that holistically, you can craft a compensation package that's appropriate. Okay.

0:18:24

So the core question that people ask us all the time, the most often is Do I have to pay speakers? Do I have to? Do I have to? Oh, do I have to pay them? Well, yeah. You do, actually. And so underlying that question, are the real questions of, well, can't I just get speakers for free? I'm worried about my budget, and so will not paying speakers help me balance that? You know, I heard so and so doesn't pay their speakers. Why do I have to or even just how much should I pay speakers? I just have no idea, so I have these really weird misconstrued notions about what speakers cost.

0:19:05

So solutions around that are really understanding what you're able to offer. You do that through proper budgeting. Budgeting early and often, setting compensation package as you as you do that budgeting process, and then really using your speaker selection process in a way that is holistically aware of what your goals are, what your audience goals are, what your budget is, and what you have to work with, and how you can craft something out of that that is that is respectful and authentic and that show that really demonstrates that you are committed to your your speakers. Because at the end of the day, a conference needs two things. That without either of them, you don't have a conference.

0:19:50

One, you need an audience there and two, you need speakers. Of something you need content. Right? And if you're not willing to pay for the content to be able to get the audience in the room, you've got a problem. So pay your speakers, please. 

Thanks for listening to Make it Kickass. We definitely have other thoughts and a lot of opinions around speakers and speaker honorariums, but we hope today's episode would put you on the right path to inviting incredible speakers to your events and bringing them to your audience. But if you wanna dive even deeper if you want more, go to geteventlab.com and get a free copy of the tool that we use with our clients to help them figure out their conference budget so that they know how much they can pay their speakers. That is  geteventlab.com, and I will see you all next time.